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Post by Poipole on Mar 10, 2019 20:03:54 GMT
also
@all
'this final three was my plan since .... .The reason I wanted it was.... I specifically did ..... to make it happen. If things had not gone my way, I had backup plans to...'
Can you fill in the blanks for me?
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 20:14:13 GMT
@all
what's one thing you would change about how you played, for next time? One thing you wouldn't?
Related, your proudest and least proud moment in the game?
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One thing I would change about my game that has been a pretty big topic of discussion here at FTC is trying to find a way to not come off as robotic and cold as I seemingly did with a lot of jurors. That was not at all something I was trying to do during the game and so I am surprised and disappointed to hear that that's the Deoxys that a lot of people saw, especially as the game went on. I would make more of an effort to connect and socialize with people as clearly what I was doing in that regard was lacking in most cases.
One thing I would not change is the way I managed my threat level. I think I did a good job of avoiding becoming seen as a threat or someone who needed to be taken out until late in the game, and the way the merge played out it was absolutely an advantage for me as 'big threats' all went out in a row from eight to four. By being willing to take a back seat in the two Mystic tribes and then doing a lot of my work in the early merge behind the scenes I think I was able to not be someone that was viewed as a big game player which meant that I was not in danger at all until rather late in the game, by which time I had an easier path to the end.
My proudest moment in the game is definitely F6 immunity. That challenge was absolutely hell - by looking at the thread I did it in, I did them back-to-back and it took me over three and a half hours. At that point in the game though I knew that Hoopa was a huge threat and also thought that were getting low enough in numbers that my position may not have been as secure as it had been earlier, so I very much wanted to win Immunity both to be able to try and turn votes against Hoopa and to have protection in case anything went wrong so the votes wouldn't end up on me.
My least proud moment was...everything else at F6. You were someone that mattered a lot to me in this game as I have discussed, and I hated the fact that I was having to push so hard to keep Regi in the game and couldn't tell you why. You had very real concerns about him staying and while I did care about them and you, he was too important to my game and so I had to convince myself to talk you out of voting him and into voting Hoopa instead. Now, I never imagined that Hoopa would have an idol and so did not think there was any chance you were going home, but I still feel dirty and sleezy for misleading you about why I wanted to vote Hoopa there instead of Regi.
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 20:22:01 GMT
This final three was my plan since you got idoled out. I knew from earlier on in the game (about when Uxie went out) that this would be my best chance to win, but my F4 plan was this trio+you and I don't know if I'd have been able to write your name down had you not won immunity.
The reason I wanted it was that after the Uxie vote, I felt you/Coba/Meltan/Hoopa/Celebi all had a good chance to beat me if I were at the end with any of you due some combination of strong social game, idol play, and challenge performance.
I specifically did leave big threats around until mid-late game to make it happen by trusting that people would see the need to take out those players before myself, Regi or Tapu would be targetted.
If things had not gone my way, I had backup plans to be a loyal sidekick to any of you, Coba, Hoopa, Celebi, Meltan. Coming out of Mystic I knew that all of you were strong players who would probably go far in this game, and had I not been able to put myself in a position where I had more options I was trying to make myself look nonthreatening so that one or more of you would take me along as a loyal number and someone they trusted.
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Post by Poipole on Mar 10, 2019 20:58:57 GMT
That's great, thank you.
I really do want to connect post game.
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 21:04:34 GMT
Same
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 22:10:28 GMT
@all
what's one thing you would change about how you played, for next time? One thing you wouldn't?
Related, your proudest and least proud moment in the game?
You know, next time I'm going to completely scrap whatever the hell I just did and do better. I still think I did okay socially, at least in the first half of the game. Best I could probably do anyways. The social part of my game can stay because I feel like I'm in that sweet spot where I can form strong connections with people but not come across as a social threat.
Strategically, just chill the heck out. I thought my game was super cool, but it's only cool if I don't make it to the end. It's cool if its like "woahh you were so crazy haha ur a funny juror" but if you get to the end with this it's just BAD. Taking jury management into consideration when making votes is something I for sure want to do.
With that being said, if I could do something even more devious BEFORE the jury and get away with it, similar to how I threw a challenge to eliminate articuno, oh hell yes I will do that. Do all the evil stuff in a more laidback way before jury to get those people out of the game. Take advantage of swaps not to remove players who are socially weak, but socially strong. I want to eliminate the tapu lele's and the poipole's and the uxie's BEFORE jury begins and BEFORE merge begins, because those are the type of people who are going to be jurors that wouldn't be as sympathetic to my strategic side. Meltan read my speech and said "hell yeah brother" because he was a self proclaimed gamebot type. And that's the kind of people I want on my damn jury, because I'm always going to be a strategic player first and a social player second.
Lesson two. Some people consent to being backstabbed. Take the example of meltan again. He was just like "yee haw" after he got sent packing unanimously. But uxie didn't. Meltan = Paper, Uxie = Rock. Paper players are cool with being stabbed, rock players aren't. Rock players need to be removed by simple majority votes, meaning it's a waste of a simple majority vote to go after a paper player.
Protect paper players like meltan and coba. Make the game stall out as long as possible before taking them down, to try to force people into it. Celebi VIA idol would have been a better vote at 10 because I didn't know that much about her at the time and didn't know her style (didn't know she was kinda rock) (also hadn't thought of this scheme)
tl;dr: Keep early social game the same. Change strategic game to prioritize targeting social threats over strategic ones for as long as possible. Don't backstab social (or sensitive) players, vote them out using majority descisions, and save the backstabs for people who will feel like they deserve it or take it as a compliment.
Proudest moment. Rescuing mewtwo from the edge of extinction. I hope you become a great player, mewtwo.
Least proud moment. Not telling uxie to play her idol.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 22:13:00 GMT
also @all 'this final three was my plan since .... .The reason I wanted it was.... I specifically did ..... to make it happen. If things had not gone my way, I had backup plans to...' Can you fill in the blanks for me?
I first heard the names discussed on mystic 2.0, actually. The initial deal was meltan-deo-reggie, and then deo said "maybe tapu is worth considering too". It solidified @ F7. This final 3 was my plan since F7. The reason I wanted it was because everyone else in the game was a social threat. I specifically targeted people who were not in the F3 deal except deoxys lol and also stayed close with celebi so she wouldnt vote me out to make it happen. If things had not gone my way, I had backup plans to go to the end with celebi.
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Post by Poipole on Mar 10, 2019 22:58:14 GMT
You did great socially in places. Like I said, you were the one I wanted to talk to at merge, and your last pm to me was great.
I think with an eye on the strategic prize but being aware more that other people existed doesnt compromise your game. A lot has been made about social v strategic, but it's not that clear cut.
Does it surprise you to know that there have been points at which I've considered voting you to win?
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 23:30:43 GMT
No. I think your questions are the ones I've answered the best, so I can believe that.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 10, 2019 23:48:45 GMT
hi I'm still here and not ignoring you I'm at a PC rn so real life being good I will throw down that play by play shortly If I don't get a chance, I'll summarise it in my closing speech for you.
Sorry for dragging my feet. Such a mammoth task on a phone.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 10, 2019 23:54:36 GMT
@all what's one thing you would change about how you played, for next time? One thing you wouldn't? Related, your proudest and least proud moment in the game? I've touched on how much I've learned this game in a couple of other threads but, in essence: I have learned a LOT about how to play a sounder long-term strategic game, and that's something I look forward to improving on next time I play Survivor. Even if I don't have a personality to be a game bot badass magnetic big move type player, the next time I'm in one of these games I want to be able to reach FTC and be able to say "Here is my tremendous wall of accomplishments and this is why you should vote me". I know so much more about the optics of a game of Survivor, and that's something I'm craving an opportunity to utilise. Cop-out answer but my proudest moment is being able to engage with all of you. I had some perceptions to fix (basically players who just had me written off as a goat), and I'm very glad I have the opportunity to stand in front of the jury and explain why that perception is flawed. Without a doubt, this phase and the opportunity to explain my play the way I have is the proudest part of my game. The least proud is probably the earlier Harmony TCs, and the way I looked in the fall-out of those. Timezones and alliances definitely played a part in how I was perceived, but part of it was my personality and my approach to the game. The next time around I don't want to be one of those people who's frozen and petrified of saying the wrong thing to the wrong person. I've spoken a bit about the way I approached you and Hoopa in particular at certain points in Harmony, and that kind of weakness and lack of ambition/certainty would be the thing I'm the least proud of. If you want a single moment, though, it'd be horrifically miscounting the Uxie elimination TC.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 10, 2019 23:55:36 GMT
Oops and a thing I wouldn't change is the way I approach people at a surface level. I think I've communicated well in a willing-to-listen and kindness way. I do need to back that up with more sound, consistent strategic talk next time. But I think it's been a boon to my game.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 10, 2019 23:59:45 GMT
also @all 'this final three was my plan since .... .The reason I wanted it was.... I specifically did ..... to make it happen. If things had not gone my way, I had backup plans to...' Can you fill in the blanks for me? This final three was my plan since since Mystic2.0, give or take a few ponderous moments in Harmony. The reason I wanted it was because I feel that we have all played substantially different enough games, that this could be anyone's game. I specifically did work with Regi and Deo, and as much as possible to eliminate those I saw as greater endgame threats to make it happen. If things had not gone my way, I had backup plans to reach FTC with potentially Celebi or Poipole as somewhat-close-but-still-too-dangerous contenders.I think we three loosely acknowledged each other as equals during the swapped tribes, and it's pretty fascinating to me the way we were able to work both for and against each other through back-to-back tribes (or b2b2b for Regi and I) and reach the finale.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 0:21:23 GMT
so the Volcanion, Mesprit and Uxie eliminations were very much out of my hands. I didn't get the feeling that the OG Valors were being systematically destroyed by the experienced players, so this wasn't something which I needed to react to in and of itself. I just needed to make sure I wasn't taken out, and by that token preferably that Regi wasn't on the chopping block.
Which lead into Cobalion's elimination TC, which was my first fairly difficult decision. Coba himself approached me about the fact my play had been largely unremarkable, and I needed to up the standard. I'd interpreted that as "Actually have a fucking strategy" rather than necessarily making big moves which may have been erroneous, but this is really the point where I think my strategic augmentation of my play kicked into gear. I spoke a fair bit more about it in Cobalion's thread but there was basically no way I could afford to swing my vote against Regi and lose like all control in the game by being the sole Valor1.0 left. It would also put me as completely beholden to Meltan and Deoxys. And I was aware of the fact Meltan didn't entirely trust me (via Regi tbf but it is what it is), and I was aware of the fact Deo wasn't entirely trustable.
TC11 is where I realised I needed to start thinking realistically and as a solo player, rather than a team player. The ideas thrown into the pot were Meltan and Celebi; from the perspective of the players I couldn't afford to reach endgame with, it was pretty clear to me that this was the time to remove the risk of a Meltan FTC sweep. I'm kinda proud of myself for being (I think) the only one to actually talk with Meltan and like explained my perspective on it, and the tremendous threat I saw from him. He wasn't all that impressed with the fact I was voting him at all but tbh I don't really know what he expected here. His only path to FTC was blitzing every single challenge/immunity idol along the way and that was just unrealistic. This was a tough one and there weren't really major moves to make, save maybe trying to swing a vote against Celebi which would have been completely against my win condition.
TC12.. yeah everyone in the game except like Hoopa and Celebi got outplayed here so I'm not gonna pretend I had a glorious master plan. I viewed Hoopa as a greater endgame threat than I viewed you, so I wanted this to be her TC and voted accordingly. I was aware that you were the counterwagon, but I didn't anticipate another idol and didn't expect it to gain enough traction that I'd need to give you the heads-up. But realistically it was either you=>Hoopa or Hoopa=>you from this TC. Your social game was too deadly, and I don't think I'd be equipped to sell myself over you in the FTC.
TC13 was basically just the Hoopa assassination. If I'd had to make an endgame threat order at this time, no matter how I spun it, Hoopa would have come out on top. This was by far the challenge which I worked the hardest at, and I think it was probably the most important challenge in the game; if Hoopa had managed to wedge her way into an F5 through immunity and Deoxys was the one voted out, we would have been looking at {Hoopa, Celi, Regi, Tapu Lele}. and that would have been an instant loss for me. I was pretty wary of how substantial this one was to execute.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 0:21:46 GMT
uhh hopefully that helps a little :x please throw more questions at me if you're looking for more.
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Post by Poipole on Mar 11, 2019 0:40:02 GMT
can you go back and tell me something you learnt about/enjoyed with the jurors? A moment of connection, specifically? I think deo gave a fairly good template earlier in the thread.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 0:44:59 GMT
11-Volcanion Honestly...not much here. As I talked about with you and others at the time, there was really no ability for the two of us to connect at all, and I'm sure that was as much my failing as anything. 10-Mesprit I didn't have the opportunity to talk too much with Mesprit due to the other things going on for her and possibly some timezone/hours online conflicts. We did talk briefly about her experience in a past LSG game (though I won't go into the details as it's not for me to share) and that's probably the biggest takeaway I had from my brief relationship with Mesprit - other than the RL issues of course. 9-Uxie Uxie and I talked a fair bit about board games, and I know she judged me for my enjoyment of euro games Uxie also ended up making super jealous of a really cool game that had been available on kickstarter but when I looked it up has no immediate plans for retail distribution - ELO or something like that. 8-Cobalion Coba is one of the few people I actually talked Survivor about, which was cool. He also explained the NFL halftime show controversy about Sweet Victory to me, which I appreciated. 7-Meltan I loved Meltan's drawings, and they always made me smile! I also remember at one point him sharing some code with me (C++ I think?) that brought back memories of being hopelessly confused during my programming class in first year university. 6-Poipole I don't think I can do justice to you in a short blurb here. You were far and away the most enjoyable part of the game for me, and I ended up caring about you way more than I ever would have thought possible in just five weeks of an online game. As for one thing that sticks out, I remember being insanely jealous of your cooking and the delicious food you talked about making. 5-Hoopa Hoopa and I talked about a bunch of stuff, but I remember one conversation about Takenoko where she mentioned a house rule about having to act out the panda eating the bamboo that I thought was hilarious. Celebi Definitely the conversation we had about law school, Law and Order, and my regrets and memories relating to my uncle. Tapu Tapu was always so positive and upbeat that it couldn't help but bring my mood up to talk to her. I did talk to her a bit about DnD and Shadowrun at one point which was cool since it's something I used to play a ton of but haven't in years. Regi Regi and I connected at first over math pretty quickly, and it was cool to have someone to geek out over that sort of thing with. And I'm interested if he will ever have time to build the program for that Knight Problem we talked about! Is this the template you'd like me to follow but particularly wrt the jurors? I'll start typing up, just want to make sure I answer adequately.
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Post by Poipole on Mar 11, 2019 0:47:15 GMT
Basically. You can talk about the finalists too. You don't have to hit on me though (sorry, i'm a harsh taskmistress).
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 0:53:35 GMT
Yikes... let's see if I can stop myself
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 11, 2019 1:07:15 GMT
If you can figure out how to resit Poipole and avoid hitting on her, let me know.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 1:11:30 GMT
I'm failing. I am typing out my answer now and find I keep accidentally trailing off into flirting with Poipole. How do I stop this, I need to focus
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 1:11:41 GMT
11-Volcanion I might have to echo Deo a little here - there hasn't been a lot of jury connection. Volc and I jammed really well in Valor1.0, but by the time Harmony came around we'd lost a lot of that spark. I think we approached the merge tribe in very different ways (Volc a lot more calculating; Lele as a massive bundle of confused love). It's kind of hard to put into words succinctly but there hasn't been a lot of click here.
10-Mesprit Mesprit hasn't been around for too long in question time and I admittedly missed her, so not a strong connection here either. I liked her question, but it's not something that resonated well with my approach to the game; I didn't have a drawn-out hypothetical strategical approach if she hadn't been here. It would've been great to work with her ingame but yeah.
9-Uxie I really respect the way that Uxie took the time to consider my approach to the game, and was willing to work around the preconceived notion that I might be a goat. His calling me out on not warning him about his elimination was extremely fair. I think he presented his concerns that I'm the weakest member of FTC upfront and honestly, and listened really earnestly to my responses. I think we connected really well over in his thread.
8-Cobalion I love Coba's questions. I think I look 30 years older and all my hair has gone grey from working through them but it has been INCREDIBLY rewarding. His opening question of "you understand the advice I gave you - why didn't you act on it?" basically cut my little egg in half and let him see into my soul. The fact that he synthesises my answers, looked for the point where he felt I was least sound, and probed there (why didn't I make big plays? => how did my strategic game improve? => how would I have responded to reaching FTC with another socially strong player? and so forth) was extremely probing and made me reconsider quite a lot about my game. I hope that there was a connection from Coba's perspective as well, because I think being called to task on the way I interpreted his advice definitely spun me going into FTC. His questions really resonated with me and made me think about the way I'm projecting and expressing myself at a deeper level than I had been.
7-Meltan Similarly, but less so - I think the way Meltan probed me about my lack of backup for my social game was thought provoking and cool. I don't think it was presented as soundly as Cobalion's and don't think I reconnected with Meltan as well in the FTC. To be fair, he was an EXTREMELY strategic player who had nothing to expect from me so I didn't expect a clouds-breaking-open moment here.
6-Poipole I can't focus on your questions because... every time I see your face I just ch-- choke up and blush... oh Poipole... our love was truly star-crossed...
5-Hoopa Hoopa has questioned me well and thrown some really nice curve-balls and feedback at me. I wasn't sure that we'd reconnected firmly in FTC, and I was aware that I had a /lot/ of ground to make up here but I really respect the way just now she's made the comment that I've recovered well and wished me luck. I'm not sure if Hoopa's vote is one that I can win, given everything that's gone down and the way it has--but I'm hugely grateful to her for considering the challenge I'm in, and recognising that I'm not going to lay on my back and be slaughtered for my tasty tasty Tapu Lele meat.
Celebi This flying psychic veggie has been a blast to chat to the whole way through. She's been consistently funny, fun and charming and has played the game nicely. The fact her FTC questioning thread has been less formal, and asking a lot of left-of-centre questions, is a beautiful homage to the way she played this game. She owes me no debt of loyalty, and likely has no reason to consider me strongly as a contender for the winner slot. But I definitely think we've connected socially in the thread and it's been a lot of fun.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 1:13:27 GMT
Real talk though, I think the fact you called me to task for being non-committal and harder to gauge than the others was really cool and that's something that's resonated with me. Your more challenging requests have been pretty difficult to crunch through without multi-tabbing like mad but you've forced me to be very accountable for myself.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 11, 2019 1:19:58 GMT
Since I have a bit of time. I'll try not to shit on anyone. This is me pretty cleanly opening my mind for you all to see. Deo & Regi - I've seen a vastly different perspective on going into this FTC. I think going in I held Regi in higher esteem as some kind of like level-headed social king Survivor god and I was a little bit scared when Deo didn't consider him as much of a threat as I did. Through the process, I think I have a better grasp of how you tick, Mr. Gigas. And Deo, I might have underestimated a little bit going into the endgame--you've played a far more complex and clever game than I'd actually realised, even when we were jamming in F4. The way that you've both approached the game has been considered and cunning, but I think I'm starting to realise they were in a way that weren't as domineering as I'd originally thought. Both of you have made some seriously big calls, and burned some bridges along the way - and I think it's incredibly eye-opening the way that you've both responded to having to face those players down for the FTC. Probably hijacking Poi's thread a little here but she invited me to do this.... so
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Post by Poipole on Mar 11, 2019 1:21:29 GMT
@all
Why play survivor? On a personal level. This is one hell of a commitment/time sink/stressor. what makes it a good choice for you?
@tapu, that wasn't quite what I expected, although I did actually really appreciate it . and throughout the game, where were your moments of connection? Tell me a thing you vibed well socially with about each of the merge players. A sentence each will do 'i enjoyed talking to meltan about submarines' or whatever.
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