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Post by Wallace on Mar 9, 2019 2:15:39 GMT
Don't post in anyone else's question thread, juror. Ask all your questions here.
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 14:09:59 GMT
Hello friends and sort of friends but not really at all friends, so nice to see you again. I know you're probably hoping my thread is going to be some fun giggleland, but it probably won't be because I am just not sure at all who of you I should vote for and why. So, I'm going to want you to convince me, and while I have read the entirety of your speeches and will be reading the question threads you have with other people, what you say here to me is how I will be deciding what it is that I do. Let's begin, shall we?
Deo, I'd like you to tell me what it is you've done to make people like or appreciate you on a social or personal level that had nothing to do with strategy. Your opening speech seems to be filled with this super detached strategy guy who has surface-level feelings at best toward everyone. Is that the only side of you that you have to offer or is there more to you?
Regi, what would you say to the thoughts that you're someone that was being brought to the end simply because you're abrasive and said a lot of really hurtful and awful things to people in PMs with them? Is that true, or is it something other people played up to discredit you with? How much of how you tried to sell the end game to me in PMs was bullshit?
Lele, you seem to be incredibly good at AtE and socially connecting to people, but what have you done strategically in this game? Did you just happen to luck into these situations that worked out really well for you and didn't make you a target where you could just follow along like a good little sheep doing what you were told? Or did you actually have a set strategy of how you wanted to play this game? Are you simply just good at conversation and people, or is there more to you than that?
Okay so now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'd like each of you to find a gif that you feel represents each and every one of the jurors here, as well as each other and yourselves.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 14:22:24 GMT
It's fair to say that part of my game has been lucking into situations where people who were major threats to me were removed organically, sure. But yes, particularly in the later parts of the game I was playing to a strategy.
Sorry if it's impolite to defer but I'm stuck mobile posting - I've spoken a fair bit to this over in Coba's thread. Hopefully my posting there offers some insight to what I've been doing.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 9, 2019 14:41:24 GMT
It was never my strategy or intention to be hurtful with people. I know was cold with deoxys, because he was cold with me despite my best efforts to connect with him. He just came across to me as a game-bot so I accepted that was who he was and rolled with it. The tone of his speech is basically the same as the tone he gave me all game - dull, dry, and disinterested.
Was I hurtful to anyone else? Was I hurtful to you? My main goal this game in terms of personality was to be funny when it came to fluff, and blunt when it came to strategy. I can understand if my bluntness came across as abrasive or harsh - the intent there was to discourage miscommunications and to try to give a lot of trust to people to make them trust me back. If there's anyone else who claims they were hurt by the PM's they shared with me other then deoxys, I haven't heard it.
How much of the endgame stuff was bullshit? None, really. By the time I had made my decision not to take you past F5, you had already stopped replying to me, so I didn't force the issue.
I knew that my main competition at FTC was going to be between either you, celebi, or deoxys. I heard that you were very universally liked and I saw why that was true first hand.
As you can probably tell, I've never been this far before, and I am doing all this jury stuff for the first time. I was legitimately considering taking you to the end because I had a better impression of Celebi socially, and a better impression of deoxys strategically, so that really did make you look like a double-second place. I wasn't there to see you on mystic or instinct, so a lot of where your reputation came from was just a grey area to me. To try to ease my confusion I wanted to talk to you openly to see if I could get more information about you. Talking to you openly let me know that you had your reputation for a reason - you are a very strong player and probably someone I could not afford to take to the end, even if I was missing 2/3rds of the picture of who you were.
I tend to judge people by my experience with them as opposed to their reputation, and something tells me that the opposite of how juries work. Therefore, I went against my initial judgement that you were a good endgame choice, since my new experience with you proved that to be faulty.
It was for sure a disadvantage for me that mystic 1.0 had such a majority in this merge, and I feel like if I had spent more time with you guys on previous tribes I could have known more about you, and it wouldn't have been as hard for me to make the decisions I made at endgame. But I think I was able to make up for this information disadvantage, and that is a significant obstacle that is unique to my game which I overcame.
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 14:44:07 GMT
@lele: I have read what you said in the other thread, but I'd like you to walk you through it from the perspective I had of you. Which you may recall included every single round being the last person to name a set target, and to always say you're confused about everything that is happening and waiting to hear what Regi or Meltan or Uxie were doing depending on the round. Also no worries, mobile is a bitch just do what you can as you can.
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 14:59:26 GMT
@regi: There were a few times that I'd heard from people not just Deo that you had said something that bothered people, but then again Deo had a similar track record I was just curious how you would answer to those claims. And for the record, you made the right move in not going with me, because you're here and probably in a decent place. Even though I did mean that F4 I offered you, because you're right, you and Deo played incredibly similar games but you I at least thought I could beat in a challenge  . @ All: From what I can see this FTC is a toss up of being Regi's and Deo's to lose, and Lele just has to convince people of what she's done, this could go any way. I know I went in kind of harsh here, but I want the person I vote for to be the kind of winner who reflects what made this game so wonderful. So I need you all to do your damnedest to convince me. Why do you represent the best of what this particular game, not survivor as a whole or your specific experiences and playstyles, has to offer? I don't want you to tear down each other's games, I'm not the kind of juror who that works with. I want you to sell what you have to offer and have it stand on its own merits. |
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 15:05:35 GMT
Also Regi, I wasn't purposefully trying not to talk to you. Stuff happened IRL for me that made it incredibly difficult to PM anybody at all that last round. And Lele, I knew I was the target that round and I knew maybe I could have gotten Celebi out or even you, but I was trying to play an honest game and lie and betray people as little as possible. I'm loyal to a fault sometimes and perhaps overly forgiving and willing to give people a second chance when I need to go all scorched earth on them. So in a way, thanks for voting me out that round guys, I really needed the chance to unplug and focus on real stuff.
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 9, 2019 16:37:22 GMT
I just want to acknowledge that I see this and plan to give it a full response but by nature that will be quite long and so I will do so tonight after work.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 9, 2019 17:39:36 GMT
.. yeah this is not going to be an easy response give me some time
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 21:36:49 GMT
That's reasonable - thanks for having a read. It makes sense that this kind of question would come from you given that we were on opposite sides of the game for such a long time.
TC where I am was basically throwing a few PMs around the place, then sleep, then waking up and having a couple of hours before work to figure out how those PMs fell and whether I was going to accept what everyone was saying. I had 4 hours (2 of which were at work) leading up to deadline to make my moves - you mentioned me being the last to name a target and that's not something that I intentionally dragged my feet on.
Certainly some of the "ahh what's going on screaming" was very true especially far out from deadlines - I'm not particularly sure why I would present anything different to someone who I was 90% of the time going to be working against (or at least working against the allies of), though. I definitely think by the time tribal council deadlines closed in our conversations generally became quite a lot more lucid, but from my point of view there wasn't a lot of point in hashing out half baked plans with "The Enemy" you know?
Basically a combination of not being around for hours 5-13 leading up to TC and not wanting to blast you with half baked plans would be the best description of what you're experiencing.
I can understand the perspective it's given you on how I've played, but I don't think it's something which is fair to consider poor form in a vacuum. If that makes sense.
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 21:45:18 GMT
@deo/Regi: No worries, you have time, and I would much rather you give me a properly thought out response than half-ass it, that is the point of the questions @lele: Okay, that's all very fair, and kind of what I thought was actually the case more or less. I know you've said it in a lot of places already, but I really need you to sell me on you having agency in you being here. Because it really doesn't seem like you did. What were choices you made? Were there things you said to certain people in certain rounds to keep them on your good side or view you as less of a threat or something? Was there anything that was planned in advance, or are you a reactionary player that has a loose framework and adapts to what is put in front of you in a specific round? It is okay if the second is your answer, I just want you to prove it, bring out those receipts dollface, show me the work you've put in. I know you're a passionate person who gives their all, but I need you to point me where to look since our interactions wouldn't have that. |
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 21:58:01 GMT
Gotcha - that's a fair call<3 I was almost 100% reactive here. Late game I had a plan to get to FTC without players who directly outclassed me but actually executing it was a one-thing-at-a-time reactive play. Proving it is also something I have like a 1% chance of doing while I'm mobile. Please watch this space. |
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 22:06:55 GMT
I'll be watching, much like you without hair.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 22:18:07 GMT
I just... I need to tear my eyes away but it doesn't work... Hoopa why are you so cute bald....
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 9, 2019 22:26:19 GMT
It's the mischief.
Also, going back to your speech, you have nothing to feel badly about in the round that I went. Even if you had told me that I was going to be who went home and that even Celebi was on board, you weren't who I was going to be voting. Like, as much as you saw me as a force of nature, I didn't have it in me that round, but also there wouldn't have been any support in hell for that. And trying for a move that there will be no support for doesn't make sense. Everyone wanted you here at the end, which might be something as a point in your favor to how you underplayed your game, or the loyalty people had towards you. I don't know that I would have had the heart to try for Celebi even if it meant surviving. So, don't beat yourself up over me going home and you leading me on about it. As Celebi can tell you, I knew I was going and it was okay.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 22:36:12 GMT
I appreciate the feedback there. It's genuinely been sitting like a rock at the back of my mind - the fact Celi's vote also swung after such a long allegiance had me realising you probably knew you weren't getting to FTC. But being manipulative is so not my jam as you have probs noticed
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 1:38:35 GMT
Deo, I'd like you to tell me what it is you've done to make people like or appreciate you on a social or personal level that had nothing to do with strategy. Your opening speech seems to be filled with this super detached strategy guy who has surface-level feelings at best toward everyone. Is that the only side of you that you have to offer or is there more to you?
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That's absolutely not the only side I have to offer!
It seems obviously that my opening speech did not come across to several of you in the way I intended it based on this and other similar questions. The Deoxys that you all/most knew in the game is absolutely the real Deoxys. I very much enjoyed talking with each of you, I was very happy to get to know you, and I cared a lot about the people in this game as people. I made an effort to always ask people how their day was going, to talk about movies or shows or games we both were in to, to get recommendations for things to check out, etc. That was all real and genuine.
I don't know how to approach your question in terms of what I did to 'make people like or appreciate me' that has nothing to do with strategy, because the concept of making people like me seems way more gamey than anything I did, if that makes sense. When we talked about sleeping habits, you being a student, and Castle of Ortanto, that wasn't me trying to get you to like me, but just real interest. When I talked to Celebi a bunch about Law and Order and how amazing Jack McCoy is and how I regret not having gone to law school, that was real conversation. Nothing I did was done to try and specifically get people to like me, but I would certainly hope that people enjoyed the conversations they had with me and liked me as a person. After the F6 when I had voted for you and you likewise had lied to me and idoled out Poipole, I told you that I wanted to continue working with you if we could find a way to do so, but that regardless of if there was a working relationship I did want to keep a conversation going with you about all the other stuff - that was because I did genuinely like you and enjoy talking to you; and the same is true with my conversations with most people.
The reason that my opening speech was very strategy-heavy is that that was the side of my game that I was not at all open about during the game, as basically the only person I had fully genuine conversations about the game with was Poipole. The way I tried to play strategically was to have a good working relationship with as many people in the game as possible and make as many people as possible think I was loyal to them until it was time for them individually to go. Because of the nature of that, it wasn't something I was broadcasting to others and so I wanted to spend time during my opening speech revealing the gameplay side of Deoxys to everyone in an attempt to show how and why I got here, and why I think I deserve your vote(s). The feedback I had received from just about everyone during the game was that people did like me, enjoy my company, have nice things to say about me to each other, etc so I instead wanted to show the strategic side of me that most people didn't get to see firsthand. Based on you and others questions, either I was not as well-liked as I thought in the first place or else I overshot the mark and madxe myself come across as cold and uncaring, and either way that's a learning experience for me.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 3:41:34 GMT
@regi: There were a few times that I'd heard from people not just Deo that you had said something that bothered people, but then again Deo had a similar track record I was just curious how you would answer to those claims. And for the record, you made the right move in not going with me, because you're here and probably in a decent place. Even though I did mean that F4 I offered you, because you're right, you and Deo played incredibly similar games but you I at least thought I could beat in a challenge . -- yeah no wories. I wasnt offended, |
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 10, 2019 13:46:55 GMT
Thank you for the long answers. I have a lot to think about. I will say I'm kind of in the same boat as Uxie and Poi, I'm not feeling particularly wooed or impressed by these answers, a lot of it just feels hollow. I wasn't sure who I was going to vote for going into this, and now I'm even less sure.
@regi/Deo: Please tell me what kind of jury management you have done with the jurors here. Because your answers to certain questions in other threads sure keep looking like y'all don't care about that and care more about showing each other up and some weirdly aggressive performance art. Why shouldn't we just say fuck that noise and all just vote for Lele who isn't involving herself in that?
@lele: I have to say of the finalists you have been handling yourself with the most grace and the most like a well-rounded person, and it's refreshing. That being said, are you just sitting back and avoiding the negativity as a way to social game this FTC, or are you less passionate about your game and winning it?
@all: You need some fun questions, and since it seems y'all missed my gif question(for shame!), let's try something else. What was the funniest moment in this game for each of you? What was the best joke you told somebody all game?
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 13:57:48 GMT
I did absolutely no jury management this game because I didn't think it was actually important. BIG THINK. I wasn't actually expecting to get all the way to the end. That's a lesson I am happy to say I have learned the hard way. There's no way I would have learned this if I hadn't actually made it here, because you don't need to be held responsible for your actions or improve on your game in a drastic way if you're a juror, it's just like "well, you got voted off, next time dont do that." Here at fTC you get every aspect of your game held under close scrutiny which is p. sick.
Yeah, my whole game was just weird performance art. Get to the end at any cost. Apparently there's a little bit more to the game then that. Next time I will know a tiny bit better.
I think one of my favorite running jokes with deoxys was that I kept sipping sunny D. I'm not going to say what I think the funniest moment was, I don't think that will go over well.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 14:03:12 GMT
That's actually not true, I kind of jury managed cobalion.
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 10, 2019 15:00:29 GMT
@deo: Did you know that you were someone I was planning to go everywhere with going into merge? Were you aware that my hierarchy of people to stay loyal to was Cel, then you, with Poi and Coba being people I liked a lot but far too scary to go everywhere with? Because like, you were legitimately one of the people I got excited to PM every day and couldn't wait to talk more with about everything. But then as merge went on and you clearly had other plans that didn't include me and were clearly playing every side, and you were so clearly much closer to people not me and not ones that would be easy to get rid of. Did you know about any of that? Because I feel like you didn't and I'm having a hard time reconciling the Deo that I absolutely loved with the Deo I discovered existed during merge, and the Deo sitting in front of me now. Which person are you really?
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 15:03:56 GMT
@regi/Deo: Please tell me what kind of jury management you have done with the jurors here. Because your answers to certain questions in other threads sure keep looking like y'all don't care about that and care more about showing each other up and some weirdly aggressive performance art. Why shouldn't we just say fuck that noise and all just vote for Lele who isn't involving herself in that?
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This FTC has been a huge reality check for me, and I think that's why I was very defensive and on edge for the early part of the question phase. The social feedback I had gotten from most of the jury over the course of the game was that people thought I was nice, likable, fun to be around, etc so I came into this thinking I would have to defend the game I played, the moves I made and that sort of thing - it's why so much of my opening speech centered around the strategy and game aspect. Instead I've come to realize that far from what I thought, the perception of me was anything from cold and insensitive to an emotionless robot, which really caught me off-guard. And it took me some time to come to grips with that fact rather than get defensive and combative about it like I did at first.
In terms of jury management, I don't think it's something that can be done at the end to be as effective as how people saw you during the game. I genuinely tried to be nice, kind, and relate to people as people during the course of this game and to realize that I was not at all successful is humbling and makes me realize how much room I have to grow as a Survivor player and as a person. A lot of my life has been numbers, logic, strategy, etc and clearly it's left me lacking in some other aspects that are now coming to light.
As for your last question, that's your perogative as jurors. Tapu played a very strong UTR and social game that got her just as far as Regi and I did while allowing her to be more honest and likable than clearly either of us were. I do still think I played a stronger game overall, but it's up to you eight to make that call - and you can decide that whatever way makes sense to you. That's the beauty of this game, and what makes it both so fun and also so hard.
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As for the funniest moment, so many of Meltan's images really made me laugh but one that comes to mind is at some point (I think maybe in the swap-tribe?) I mentioned something about having a sub for lunch and Meltan drew a picture of a tiny Meltan sitting beside a huge submarine in shock and I burst out laughing in the lunchroom at work.
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 15:17:35 GMT
@deo: Did you know that you were someone I was planning to go everywhere with going into merge? Were you aware that my hierarchy of people to stay loyal to was Cel, then you, with Poi and Coba being people I liked a lot but far too scary to go everywhere with? Because like, you were legitimately one of the people I got excited to PM every day and couldn't wait to talk more with about everything. But then as merge went on and you clearly had other plans that didn't include me and were clearly playing every side, and you were so clearly much closer to people not me and not ones that would be easy to get rid of. Did you know about any of that? Because I feel like you didn't and I'm having a hard time reconciling the Deo that I absolutely loved with the Deo I discovered existed during merge, and the Deo sitting in front of me now. Which person are you really?
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I...wow.
That's exactly how I felt about you on the original Mystic tribe, and it does make me really happy to know that you felt like that about me. You were someone that was always a delight to talk to, that I did very much enjoy talking to and would often look forward to speaking with while I was at work or whatnot. I don't think I knew that you necessarily felt the same way about me but I certainly hoped you did and thought you liked me at least, and so I am glad to know that I was right and then some.
Nothing changed in the way I saw you or viewed you as a person, Hoopa, and I hope you can see that nothing changed about me as a person. On a game level though, you were someone that I couldn't commit to longterm just because of how popular and charismatic and social you were. Everyone on the original Mystic tribe loved you (Meltan excepted, obviously) and spoke highly of you, and then at the merge it became clear you were viewed almost universally as someone that would win if you got to the end because of how well you had done socially. I knew you would have very much gone far into the game with me and quite possibly taken me to the end, but I also didn't think I could go to the end with you and have a chance in hell of winning against you.
The person I really am is the Deo you got to know and like at the start of the game. That was the real me, and I wasn't putting anything on or anything like that - that's who I am as a person. The gameplayer Deo is the one you saw at the merge as I tried to approach the game from a strategic perspective as much as I could - as much as there were several people in this game I truly liked and cared about that I would have enjoyed going to the end with, I couldn't in my mind do that as it was clear I couldn't beat them at all.
I hope that answers the question? Let me know if I missed the mark or you have a follow-up.
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Hoopa
Player Thirteen
Posts: 216
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Post by Hoopa on Mar 10, 2019 15:30:09 GMT
Okay, that did answer the question I was asking. So thanks for that. I don't know that I do have a followup, just man, I miss early game Deo a lot, so you'd best hit me up post game or I'm gonna be sad. That actually goes for all 3 of you, I do genuinely like you as people even if there's some aspects of your FTC performances that I'm not a fan of.
Let's look at this from a different angle, why would each of you vote for your other competitors? Like I'm not asking which of the other two you would vote for if you had to be a juror, I'm asking why would you vote for them. Tell me positives about their games that maybe haven't been highlighted so much. A good competitor has a good idea of what they're up against, and I want you to show me that you do.
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