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Post by Wallace on Mar 9, 2019 2:14:14 GMT
Don't post in anyone else's question thread, juror. Ask all your questions here.
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 9, 2019 16:35:28 GMT
Tapu Lele-
Hi friend. You were one of the people I trusted most, so I gotta admit that it was extremely disappointing when I was sent home. You mentioned the elimination on my was surprising, so why did you not mention anything to me? Generally when a player is angling to win the game, it is helpful if they have a big move on their resume, and right now it kinda feels like you are riding the coattails of Regigigas and Deoxys as the easy loyal 3rd member they brought along.
Deoxys-
As you might have guessed, this game kinda sucked for me and I was thrown into a lot of very uncomfortable situations where I was given no real options how to pursue, though it seems like a lot of that rooted back to you. Do you have any remorse shady rumor spreading and so flagrantly playing both sides?
Regigigas-
I thought we were tight, but I gotta confess your strategy looks awful on paper to win any sort of a jury vote. You were the beacon of light that I could continue playing the game as I endured hell to reach merge, and seeing you immediately throw me away has soured any interest I might have had in voting you. I also don't love the mischaracterization of there being a cult of personality around Meltan. He treated me like a person he wanted to work with for an extended period of time, which is apparently a concept absent from your strategy.
My question is why should I even vote for you given you so easily dumped me, and have essentially painted me as some agentless pawn of Meltan.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 9, 2019 17:38:32 GMT
Yeah. You're one vote I am absolutely not expecting going into this.
If it's not too painful, go back into our PM chain to about 2 hours before F9 TC ended. I sent you a PM saying something like "Please tell me exactly when you are going to be online from now until deadline".
You didn't know it at the time, but that was really me saying "please let me know how long I have to make this decision on whether or not I tell you to play your idol.".
F9 was not a great vote. I wanted the target to be poipole to protect all my allies, but you just kept forcing and forcing it onto Celebi for reasons I couldn't understand. Meltan just said we had to do whatever you said because you had an idol, which is something I really did not like. Celebi was one of my allies (who ultimately was quite loyal to me, in the end), and just like you at the time, was someone I wanted to protect. I was going to lose an ally at F9, because my allies were fighting each other. Even though we talked so openly, I still felt like you were hiding something from me, and just sadly conceded that you were probably working against me with poi, the way you were defending poipole in such a roundabout way when everyone else was down to vote for her.
Not telling you to play your idol was a decision I made under pressure, in the span of 2 hours, and one that I didn't have all the information to properly make. My impression of Celebi was someone who would be easier to take out later (correct), and my impression of you was that you had left a bad taste in my mouth after our interactions that round, and the way you strongarmed the vote made everyone else uncomftrable.
The way you speak now probably tells me I was wrong to think that you were working against me, but hey, 20/20 hindsight. It wasn't that I discarded you, I was forced (unknowingly by you) to pick between losing one friend or another.
I painted you as a pawn of meltan with the intent to raise meltan's threat level and make you seem like someone who was good to work with once meltan was voted out (ie. before you). Unfortunately, that didn't end up happening.
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 9, 2019 21:26:11 GMT
I mean you absolutely had time to let me in the loop and discuss things. Like, it's not the greatest tactic to explain to me how me going home was my fault for not reading your subtext and making you happier. I literally gave you an open window to say what vote you wanted, but you were constantly cagey. I was completely open with you, but I guess my trust was severely misplaced.
My vote was basically yours to lose going into this, but now I guess I need to be wooed if you want the vote. What would you say the weakest part of your game was? And if you could do it again, how would you improve?
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 21:55:07 GMT
If I had expected the vote against you to actually go anywhere, I would have said something. As things stood I figured you were just a target they had arbitrarily picked on our side and... yeah. Deo and Regi bold faced told me that they would be voting Celebi over you. I didn't think there was a world where you would be voted out by majority.
It's going to go down as a Thing I Should Have Done because even it I expected a vote against you with you still safe, there would have been no harm in giving you a heads up. I just didn't think it would end up being a big deal at all, and that was a bad misjudgement on my part. I apologise for it.
As far as being accused of riding on the coat tails of Reggie and Deo, I think I've addressed that (at least to an extent) in my speech, and in Cobalion's thread. It seems to be a common trend in the Jury's thinking, and it's one which I'm keen to correct because it's blatantly not true.
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 9, 2019 21:59:07 GMT
It's really only the common trend because right now we are seeing Regigigas and Deoxys fighting over the narrative that they had 100% complete control of the game the entire time, so it's very easy to see you slip into the role of 'goat they brought along that they assumed they could beat.'
I do want to say that even though you didn't give me much of a heads up or anything, I did still like talking to you. Not gonna lie, this game was a miserable slog to get through, so it was nice to know that at least someone getting to the end wasn't trying to go heartless manipulator on the situation. I think that you by far had the strongest social game and at least for me, actually put an effort into jury management.
What do you believe was your biggest mistake, and how would you approach this game differently if you could do it all over again?
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 22:03:38 GMT
There's no point in not being totally level so I'll break my biggest mistake into two paths.
Firstly holistically: having no damn idea how Survivor worked and learning as I went along. Man the structure of this game is more interesting and quirky than I expected, and the way you need to conduct yourself to be seen as a good player is quite a lot more cunning and two-faced and detailed than I expected. I didn't have any idea how FTC would go down but being here and being completely exposed to the eyes of the jury vs. two players who are claiming to basically be 3D chessmasters is quite an eye opener.
Less holistically: probably not keeping as many detailed notes about the plays I was making, and where I was making clever plays. I'm kind of relying on my memory and augmenting it by double checking old PMs and tribal council threads and that's an exhausting thing to do. Entering the game with more of an holistic plan would be the dream, but in the short term I think just documenting the way I worked through this game strategically would have been smart.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 22:04:21 GMT
If I could do it over again I'd.... probably spectate I think. I have a bit to learn, and I've been largely stuck mobile posting for the better part of a 3 months. It's a steep learning curve.
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 9, 2019 22:11:34 GMT
This is refreshingly earnest. Thanks.
Also thanks for calling me out directly in your speech. I've kinda felt like I was completely written off and forgotten by the finalists, which sucks as I had a lot of faith and trust in all three of you.
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 22:21:18 GMT
It definitely flowed both ways, here. I think there were times when the others genuinely supported you as well but this game is a hot mess.
My approach to this was always going to be to tell the individual jurors what came to mind when I thought of them and then tackle the questions about which parts of my game people felt were missing.
Thank you for embracing this format.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 9, 2019 22:36:55 GMT
I'm not blaming you at all for what happened. You getting voted out was not your fault.
It was completely out of your control - unless you had decided to go and play a crazy all-over-the-map trust bingo game like I chose to.
Tapu let the two of us do the work - reaping all the rewards without doing the work herself. That's a viable playstyle as well, just look at good players like celebi or yourself who did similar things. The risk you run with that sort of game is just suddenly getting cut - like you and celebi were. That wasn't something I wanted to have happen to me, so I chose not to play that sort of game.
You suffered a beautiful defeat by getting voted out, and deoxys and I have to live with our ugly victory of getting to the end by being the aggressive ones who were making the moves ourselves. Judging by the way you reflect on this game, I think I made the right choice of playstyle. I would never want to experience the same game you did. The cost of that, is becoming the bad guy.
I think because I was a versatile player, I could have made both options at F9 work. But yeah, jury management is not something I was considering at all with you, mostly because I always thought in the back of my head I would never make it to endgame as a newbie so it wouldn't matter anyways. If I had actually considered that, F9 would have been a great opportunity to just burn an idol and vote out celebi while she wasn't too attached to me yet.
Thanks for the learning experience! I'll try to make my next game less miserable. (though it must be fun spectating someone who doesn't consider jury management at all...)
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 22:44:52 GMT
Thanks for the learning experience! I'll try to make my next game less miserable. (though it must be fun spectating someone who doesn't consider jury management at all...) no comment |
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 9, 2019 22:49:58 GMT
._ .
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Post by Tapu Lele on Mar 9, 2019 23:01:23 GMT
I hate to be that guy but I'm pretty sure Reggie is paraphrasing Batman.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 9, 2019 23:05:17 GMT
Close, I'm paraphrasing The Genius.Link is spoiler free unless you click on the main article tags. |
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 2:01:01 GMT
As you might have guessed, this game kinda sucked for me and I was thrown into a lot of very uncomfortable situations where I was given no real options how to pursue, though it seems like a lot of that rooted back to you. Do you have any remorse shady rumor spreading and so flagrantly playing both sides?
---
I'm sorry to hear that this game sucked for you. This is above all else a game, and so I wouldn't want anyone to not have a good time while playing it. I was trying to win, but not at any cost if it meant souring the experience for others, especially people who were giving this game a go for the first time (which was of course a large chunk of this game).
Do I have any remorse playing both sides and trying to ensure that the two sides didn't find common ground as much as possible? No. That was not what I had intended coming into the game, but I felt that the way the Articuno vote went down on Mystic 2.0 changed a lot of what I wanted to do moving forward. Up until that point I was playing fairly passively, trying to avoid being a threat, etc. But Meltan had been someone I trusted and felt loyal to, just as I felt similarly towards everyone else on Mystic who made the swap. I liked everyone on that tribe and had hoped that we'd be able to recover in numbers at or by the merge and work together. When Meltan first brought up the idea of being wary of working with Hoopa/Celebi/Coba/Poipole, it made me a little nervous because as much as I liked Meltan and wanted to work with him, I also liked and wanted to work with all of those people as well! I told myself that it was a long way off and we'd have time to figure it out. But then we lost the challenge (which I have recently learned Tapu/Regi threw) and Meltan immediately wanted Articuno gone, and told me that it was because he was afraid Arti would be loyal to "Old Mystic" and Meltan wanted to make a good impression to the other Valors so he could get them to work with us against the Mystic group. That told me that Meltan clearly very much did think I was loyal, but also that if he ever thought I might sway he'd not hesitate to cut me if he still had power. Come merge time...Meltan was getting a lot of power. Despite the fact that I did right away reach out to Hoopa/Celebi/Coba/Poipole about how Meltan had it in his mind to work against the Mystic group, the fact that several of them had relationships with folks from their swapped tribes who might have been numbers, most or all of the Valors seemed to indeed be joining Meltan's crew at least for the immediate future. Meltan had obviously develloped a strong bond with Regi and Tapu to be willing to vote out Articuno to keep them in the game, which did make me feel like the fourth in that group - and I didn't have any prior relationship with you, Mesprit or Volc; that made me very worried that if I sided with that group I would very quickly end up in a position where I was reliant on Meltan almost exclusively to keep me safe. That was something I was not comfortable with, but neither was a situation where I committed fully to the Mystic crew - not least of which because we didn't have numbers on that side at the time, but because those were all players that I was incredibly impressed with in terms of social and strategic prowess on Mystic and so I did not want to end up in a position where I would have to go to the end with two of them, especially given that to that point in the game I had been happy to follow the bigger players and let them make decisions which would I thought make it hard for me to argue that I should win over two of those such players that I might make it to the end with.
Instead I realized that I was in a very powerful position in between the two groups as both sides just naturally assumed I was with them and I had a lot of people on both sides who trusted me and that I trusted. I reasoned that if I played the middle and used the existing conflict to try and keep the two sides apart, I would be the one who had options in the game and would tend to be involved in the decision-making process and then be able to try and nudge one or both sides to the target(s) I wanted and choose which of the two eventual targets made more sense for my game to go with. I felt like had I committed to either side fully, I'd have left myself with very little options or ability to be fluid while also setting myself up against the remaining people from whichever side I didn't go with. As you pointed out, being in a position with limited options in this game is not one that is comfortable or likely to lead to success, so it's a position I did what I could to avoid, which led to others having less options. You in particular were someone I did actually think were also trying to play both sides and had relationships with both sides, and someone I was very aware was a risk to out me as playing the double-agent role.
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 10, 2019 2:16:33 GMT
I will confess to being seriously unimpressed with the arguments that Regigigas and Deoxys have put forth, and I feel like whatever the opposite of wooed is. Y'all both kinda sucked and your social game was nonexistent, at least when it came to me. I think that the both of you spent a little too much time trying to do massively manipulative chess to control everyone else, and you're both more or less trying to claim the same throne. I firmly believe there was room for you to make it to the end without being so fundamentally dishonest and manipulative.
Deoxys, I do think the way that you approached the situation with Volcanion was truly shameful. I was genuinely interested and concerned if you were hurt by what you heard, and the fact that you fed one story to Cobalion and a different one to me to pit us against each other was a really shady thing to do beyond the veil of a game. You didn't need to do that.
Regigigas, I was always open to talking and working with you, but instead you apparently elected to spiral yourself into some weird knot of betraying everyone to stay one step ahead of everyone else. It's challenging for me to see any redeeming aspect to the way you played your game, as it was again so fundamentally dishonest. You didn't need to have six-layer deep conversations with yourself at me. I was willing to talk to you. You didn't need to do this.
I don't know what I needed to hear from either of you, but neither hit the mark. I don't love being treated like a speed bump that you just had to get over for your larger and grander plans. I thought really highly of both of you, but fucking Cobalion did a better job reconciling with me than either of you. If either of you win, I do hope it was worth it.
Perhaps your closing statements will change my perspective, but right now neither of you are showing the humility befitting of the situation you are in. For all your claims of playing the best game, don't forget that this isn't something that you two get to decide. The jury determines who played the best game, and it doesn't really seem like that's something you're taking into account.
I don't really have any more questions. Thanks again to Tapu Lele for not being the, like, 8th player in a row to string me along as a puppet in their back pocket. I think you played the best social game, and that's what I think should win here.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 2:27:03 GMT
I DO IT FOR THE SPECTATORS BABY
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Deoxys
Player Sixteen
Posts: 232
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Post by Deoxys on Mar 10, 2019 2:37:31 GMT
Thank you for your feedback Uxie. It stings to hear it, but I do appreciate it and hope I can learn from it. I tried to separate personal emotions from the game as much as possible; I really liked and sought to form real relationships with people, but then the game was somewhat separate and compartmentalized from that where I did what I thought benefited me in the game. Maybe that's just not an approach that's either successful (based on your reaction as well as other jurors, it seems like it may well not be), but also maybe it's just a shitty way to approach everyone else as people if they don't see things the same way I do and so do feel that personal pain/upset based on the seemingly opposed nature between how I treated them as people and how I treated them in the game.
I'm sorry for making you feel used, and that my actions were shameful. Hopefully I can accept that feedback and use it to do better in the future both in life and if I play another one of these.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 2:38:57 GMT
oh yeah we're still in jury *ahem*
Yeah I probably will make an effort to jury manage people next time.
BUT FOR NOW IM THE ONE WHO SPEAKS FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 2:39:50 GMT
BTW IF YOUR NAME IS UXIE DON'T READ MY CONFESSIONAL OR TORCHWALKS
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 10, 2019 2:41:48 GMT
I want you to know that I appreciate the response, Deoxys. I don't think you're a bad person, and I can appreciate you were more successful than I was. I just wish there was more room for earnestness and honesty. I don't the game has to always be manipulation.
IDK maybe I'm just rambling on a soapbox now. I look forward to seeing you in the post game, friend.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 2:42:13 GMT
IM A BAD PERSON I REALLY ENJOYED BACKSTABBING YOU
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Uxie
Player One
I am just a sleepy boi who wants to take a nap.
Posts: 155
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Post by Uxie on Mar 10, 2019 2:42:44 GMT
I don't understand what is going on, but I really don't like it. Please stop, Regigigas.
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Regigigas
Player Eight
Chewing bubblegum
Posts: 338
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Post by Regigigas on Mar 10, 2019 2:44:12 GMT
OK
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